{"id":28488,"date":"2022-08-08T10:32:55","date_gmt":"2022-08-08T09:32:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/?p=28488"},"modified":"2022-08-08T11:25:49","modified_gmt":"2022-08-08T10:25:49","slug":"supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/en\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\/","title":{"rendered":"Supporting conservation changemakers for people and nature at APAC"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The first-ever <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/apacongress.africa\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">African Protected Areas Congress<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> (APAC) convened in Kigali, Rwanda, earlier this month to discuss the future of conservation in Africa.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The five-day event brought together Indigenous peoples and local community representatives, governments, NGOs and the business sector to explore the role of protected areas in <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">conserving nature, delivering vital ecosystem services, promoting sustainable development and safeguarding Africa\u2019s traditions and cultural heritage.<\/span><\/p>\n<div data-carousel-extra='{\"blog_id\":1,\"permalink\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blog.blueventures.org\\\/en\\\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\\\/\"}' class=\"tiled-gallery type-rectangular\" data-original-width=\"900\"><div class=\"gallery-row\" style=\"width: 895px; height: 295px;\"><div class=\"gallery-group images-1\" style=\"width: 448px; height: 299px;\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery-item tiled-gallery-item-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/en\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\/apac-439\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"28537\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-439.jpg\" data-orig-size=\"1280,852\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"APAC-439\" data-image-description=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-439-536x357.jpg\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-439-726x483.jpg\" data-src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-439-444x295.jpg\" width=\"444\" height=\"295\" align=\"left\" title=\"APAC-439\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" class=\"lazyload\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 444px; --smush-placeholder-aspect-ratio: 444\/295;\" \/><\/a><div class=\"tiled-gallery-caption\">Delegates at the Sustainability and Resilience Pavilion. | Credits: Maliasili<\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"gallery-group images-1\" style=\"width: 447px; height: 299px;\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery-item tiled-gallery-item-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/en\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\/apac-503\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"28549\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-503.jpg\" data-orig-size=\"1080,720\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"APAC-503\" data-image-description=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-503-536x357.jpg\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-503-725x483.jpg\" data-src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/APAC-503-443x295.jpg\" width=\"443\" height=\"295\" align=\"left\" title=\"APAC-503\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" class=\"lazyload\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 443px; --smush-placeholder-aspect-ratio: 443\/295;\" \/><\/a><div class=\"tiled-gallery-caption\">Delegates at the Sustainability and Resilience Pavilion. | Credits: Maliasili<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Common themes in talks included the human-rights-based approach to conservation, funding community-led conservation and collaboration between communities, governments and NGOs.<\/span><\/p>\n<div style=\"width: 900px;\" class=\"wp-video\"><video class=\"wp-video-shortcode\" id=\"video-28488-1\" width=\"900\" height=\"506\" preload=\"metadata\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"video\/mp4\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Sustainability-Resilience-John-Kamanga-1.mp4?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Sustainability-Resilience-John-Kamanga-1.mp4\">https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Sustainability-Resilience-John-Kamanga-1.mp4<\/a><\/video><\/div>\n<h6>Video credits: Maliasili<\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Blue Ventures supported partners <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/comred.or.ke\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">COMRED<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> and <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/mwambao.or.tz\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mwambao<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> to attend APAC, including representatives who are part of the <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/marineconservationleaders.org\/the-programme\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">African Marine Conservation Leadership Network<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> (AMCLN) that we <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/blueventures.org\/the-african-marine-conservation-leadership-programme-creating-a-new-movement-for-conservation\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">co-founded in 2020<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> with <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.maliasili.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Maliasili<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u00a0 The <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/marineconservationleaders.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">AMCLN<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> aims<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> to accelerate and strengthen community-led marine conservation efforts in coastal East Africa and the Western Indian Ocean region by bolstering the skills, confidence and effectiveness of leaders of local and national organisations.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.sustainabilityandresilience.info\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sustainability and Resilience Pavilion<\/span><\/a>, run in partnership by Maliasili, <a href=\"https:\/\/iucnsuli.org\/#:~:text=The%20IUCN%20Sustainable%20Use%20and,and%20Social%20Policy%20(CEESP).\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The IUCN Sustainable Use and Livelihoods Specialist Group<\/a> (SULi) and the <a href=\"https:\/\/naturebasedtourism.africa\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">African Nature-Based Tourism Platform<\/a> (ANBTP)<span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, COMRED director <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/comred.or.ke\/team\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Patrick Kimani<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, who is part of the <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/blueventures.org\/accelerating-change-in-africa-by-strengthening-marine-conservation-leadership\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">first cohort of 17 AMCLN<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> leaders, spoke about the need to provide more direct and sustainable conservation funding for communities and grassroots organisations.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We need to find a mechanism that breaks the barriers between the funding and the people who are the boots on the ground,\u201d said Kimani.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div style=\"width: 900px;\" class=\"wp-video\"><video class=\"wp-video-shortcode\" id=\"video-28488-2\" width=\"900\" height=\"506\" preload=\"metadata\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"video\/mp4\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Patrick-quote.mp4?_=2\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Patrick-quote.mp4\">https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Patrick-quote.mp4<\/a><\/video><\/div>\n<h6>Video credits: Maliasili<\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Juma Mohamed, another AMCLN participant and Mwambao\u2019s Head of Programmes, also stressed the importance of sustainable financing at APAC. <\/span><\/p>\n<div data-carousel-extra='{\"blog_id\":1,\"permalink\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blog.blueventures.org\\\/en\\\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\\\/\"}' class=\"tiled-gallery type-rectangular\" data-original-width=\"900\"><div class=\"gallery-row\" style=\"width: 895px; height: 501px;\"><div class=\"gallery-group images-1\" style=\"width: 895px; height: 505px;\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery-item tiled-gallery-item-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/en\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\/juma_sustainable_finance\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"28507\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Juma_Sustainable_Finance.jpg\" data-orig-size=\"1600,900\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"Juma_Sustainable_Finance\" data-image-description=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Juma_Sustainable_Finance-635x357.jpg\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Juma_Sustainable_Finance-745x419.jpg\" data-src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Juma_Sustainable_Finance-891x501.jpg\" width=\"891\" height=\"501\" align=\"left\" title=\"Juma_Sustainable_Finance\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" class=\"lazyload\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 891px; --smush-placeholder-aspect-ratio: 891\/501;\" \/><\/a><div class=\"tiled-gallery-caption\">Juma Mohamed, Mwambao Head of Programmes on sustainable finance. |  Credits: Randall Mabwa, Blue Ventures.<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mohamed also talked about his inspiring journey of marine conservation leadership and called on youth representatives to seize opportunities to speak up and be changemakers.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The discussions on conservation financing set the stage for the launch of <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.maliasili.org\/greeningthegrassroots\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Greening the Grassroots<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. A new report from Maliasili on sustainable funding for locally led conservation. An international team of researchers interviewed nearly 50 African civil society organisations (CSOs)\u00a0 and conducted an online survey for the study<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<div data-carousel-extra='{\"blog_id\":1,\"permalink\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blog.blueventures.org\\\/en\\\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\\\/\"}' class=\"tiled-gallery type-rectangular\" data-original-width=\"900\"><div class=\"gallery-row\" style=\"width: 895px; height: 590px;\"><div class=\"gallery-group images-1\" style=\"width: 895px; height: 594px;\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery-item tiled-gallery-item-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/en\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\/solutions_report\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"28531\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Solutions_report.png\" data-orig-size=\"1200,794\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"Solutions_report\" data-image-description=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Solutions_report-540x357.png\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Solutions_report-730x483.png\" data-src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Solutions_report-891x590.png\" width=\"891\" height=\"590\" align=\"left\" title=\"Solutions_report\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" class=\"lazyload\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 891px; --smush-placeholder-aspect-ratio: 891\/590;\" \/><\/a><div class=\"tiled-gallery-caption\">Infographic highlighting findings from the conservation financing report launched by Maliasili. | Credits: Maliasili.<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The findings shed light on the key barriers and challenges that CSOs and funders face and recommend improving funding practices to support African organisations better.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">COMRED Project Manager Jane Muteti raised important points about how building small-scale fishers&#8217; marine conservation knowledge and fisheries management skills strengthen governance.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Both people and the environment matter. Successful conservation initiatives are those that are people-centred,\u201d she said.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div data-carousel-extra='{\"blog_id\":1,\"permalink\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blog.blueventures.org\\\/en\\\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\\\/\"}' class=\"tiled-gallery type-rectangular\" data-original-width=\"900\"><div class=\"gallery-row\" style=\"width: 895px; height: 501px;\"><div class=\"gallery-group images-1\" style=\"width: 895px; height: 505px;\"><div class=\"tiled-gallery-item tiled-gallery-item-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/en\/supporting-conservation-changemakers-for-people-and-nature-at-apac\/jane_comred_governance\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"28501\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Jane_COMRED_Governance.jpg\" data-orig-size=\"1600,900\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"Jane_COMRED_Governance\" data-image-description=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Jane_COMRED_Governance-635x357.jpg\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Jane_COMRED_Governance-745x419.jpg\" data-src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Jane_COMRED_Governance-891x501.jpg\" width=\"891\" height=\"501\" align=\"left\" title=\"Jane_COMRED_Governance\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" class=\"lazyload\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 891px; --smush-placeholder-aspect-ratio: 891\/501;\" \/><\/a><div class=\"tiled-gallery-caption\">Jane Muteti, Project Manager at COMRED, on the importance of community participation. |  Credits: Randall Mabwa, Blue Ventures.<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The work of our Malagasy partner <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/mihari-network.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">MIHARI<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> was cited as an example of successful community-based fisheries and marine management at the conference. MIHARI\u2019s chair Vatosoa Rakotondrazafy told us why locally managed marine areas are the future of marine conservation and deserve more legal recognition and financial support.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LMMAs are effective and real community movements. I can say that we in Madagascar are one of the best [networks] in Africa and that many countries want to learn from MIHARI,\u201d she said.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div style=\"width: 900px;\" class=\"wp-video\"><video class=\"wp-video-shortcode\" id=\"video-28488-3\" width=\"900\" height=\"506\" preload=\"metadata\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"video\/mp4\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Locally-Marine-Managed-Areas-LMMAs-are-the-future-of-marine-conservation...-Vatosoa-Rakotondrazafy-Chair-of-the-MIHARI-Network-Madagascar-1.mp4?_=3\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Locally-Marine-Managed-Areas-LMMAs-are-the-future-of-marine-conservation...-Vatosoa-Rakotondrazafy-Chair-of-the-MIHARI-Network-Madagascar-1.mp4\">https:\/\/blog.blueventures.org\/media\/2022\/08\/Locally-Marine-Managed-Areas-LMMAs-are-the-future-of-marine-conservation...-Vatosoa-Rakotondrazafy-Chair-of-the-MIHARI-Network-Madagascar-1.mp4<\/a><\/video><\/div>\n<h6>An audio clip featuring Vatosoa at the Sustainability and Resilience Pavilion.| Credits: Randall Mabwa, Blue Ventures | Image: Maliasili.<\/h6>\n<hr \/>\n<p>Acknowledgements: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.maliasili.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Maliasili<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/comred.or.ke\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">COMRED<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/mwambao.or.tz\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Mwambao<\/a> and the <a href=\"https:\/\/mihari-network.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">MIHARI Network<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The first-ever African Protected Areas Congress (APAC) convened in Kigali, Rwanda, earlier this month to discuss the future of conservation in Africa.\u00a0 The five-day event brought together Indigenous peoples and local community representatives, governments, NGOs and the business sector to [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":218,"featured_media":28543,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1181,463,1],"tags":[1180,543,1182,930],"class_list":["post-28488","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-africa","category-featured","category-uncategorised","tag-apac2022","tag-community-conservation","tag-conservation-funding","tag-conservation-leadership"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.8 - 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